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  • Science and Magic | Together, not separate

  • mark

    September 15, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    Science and Magic should work TOGETHER, not be artificially separated.

    **In Healthcare:**

    [The Placebo Effect](**,** for instance, is a good example of applied magic working in healthcare. Fully BELIEVING that you will be healed and, despite not actually receiving any change in care or chemicals, you are healed from *will alone*.

    Spiritual Well-Being is a strong indicator of quality-of-life in severely ill patients, and doctors are recommending BOTH athiests and theist patients ought to receive spiritual counseling. ([,_quality.111.aspx](,_quality.111.aspx))

    People who ‘give in to despair’ or ‘give up’ when facing disease really are less likely to recover than their equivalents in treatment who still have hope and determination. Faith, Conviction, Resolution, Hope – whatever you want to call it, they *do* effect the final outcome, even if we can’t quantify exactly *how that fucking works*.

    [Nature Healing]( is a real and thoroughly documented phenomenon in healthcare. According to studies by Yale, it takes precisely 120 minutes of nature immersion to make people (even ill people) report feeling healthy with a strong sense of well-being.

    [Meditation]( – something that is purely mental/spiritual – relieves anxiety, stress, fatigue, sleep disturbances, likely lowers blood pressure, and improves overall mood. Aka ‘ritual for peace’ It also improves willpower to quit smoking, and may even relieve symptoms of menopause and anxiety.

    Science shows that CONVICTION effects health outcomes. Willpower. *Intent*.

    That’s spellwork. That’s witchcraft.

    [“Ancestral Curses”]( are pretty real – When people endure a harsh famine (or other terribly traumatic event), those epigenetic markers the body keeps from that event can significantly accelerate biological aging, shorten lifespan, and increase incidence of chronic diseases for THREE GENERATIONS

    [‘Fairy Rings](’

    Blewit, Field Mushroom, Horse Mushroom, and several other edible species often grow in circles. Those mushrooms are also EASY to confuse with toxic species like Clitocybe dealbata and Inocybe. Inocybe which ALSO grow in circles in the same areas, and can cause Dizziness, nausea, restricted breathing, limb weakness, tremors, and loss of consciousness. Clitocybe dealbata contains muscarine, and causes the body to lose control over respiration and other muscles – loss of coordination, labored vision, weak limbs, etc. Likewise it causes excessive sweating, drooling, and tearing eyes. It can cause death from arrhythmia or respiratory failure.

    *”If a human joined in the dance, they would be forced to dance in a circle until they went mad or passed out from exhaustion”*

    Slaughter a lamb and spread the blood across your field, offer its guts for a better harvest? Excellent! Carrion birds attracted by the meat will leave nutritious waste behind, and [blood is an excellent fertilize]( on its own.

    Plant Rowan near your home for good fortune and protection? Yes, do that – especially if you need a reliable source of food in the winter. The bright berries attract deer, squirrels, and many birds. They also make a great jam or sauce, like cranberries if you cook them well. Their bark and berries can create black dye, and the trees themselves are hardy – excellent for long-lasting tools or reliable furniture.

    Use willow branches for spells related to vitality, renewal, and immortality? Excellent choice. Willow bark is an effective and reliable painkiller. Even today, some people use willow bark as an alternative to aspirin, particularly those that experience chronic headaches or back pain.

    Willow also contains a powerful rooting hormones – using water that has first soaked willow twigs encourages rich and fast growth in other plants. You can grow an entire new willow tree from a single twig, if you let it root itself.

    Our most powerful antibiotics are STILL made from “Ocean-colored mold grown from water-filled stones” – the strongest strain of [Penicillin]( grew from a cantaloupe, and we now cultivate that mold in huge metal tanks of water to make into medicine.

    Herbs for warding off bad luck, disease, misfortune? For cooling a hot temper, or encouraging rational thought? Many of the herbs we use have chemical properties that repel disease-carrying insects, lower blood pressure, thin blood, etc. – that’s why it’s so important to double-check if it’ll mess with your other medications before taking any tinctures. Herbal medicine is STILL MEDICINE.


    **Final Thoughts**

    Witchcraft and [Herbalists]( were among the first couplings of science and scientists. You’ve joined the age-old school of “fuck around, find out, and then write down the stuff that works so you can do it again later.”

    When a spell or potion WORKS EVERY TIME, we call it science and give it a Latin name. We don’t always know *how it works.* But if we CAN prove that it *works every time, under these conditions*, then that’s the scientific method! Witchcraft got a new nametag and a clean white coat.




    The more you know about the natural world – the hows and whys – the more you can see the magic in everyday applications of medicine and technology.

    I’m speaking to you via a tangle of quartz and metal, woven and layered so finely that it learned how to display images and *remember*. You use a *rock that can remember things* to look at reddit.


    When it works *every time*, we call it science.

    But it didn’t actually *change*. Why can’t we keep calling it magic?

  • lizzyborden669

    September 15, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    I approve of this message!

  • TotalLostClaws

    September 15, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    Peer reviewing is also an important part of the science of witchcraft! It’s great if something works for you every time but it’s even more important that your peers can replicate it so that you can rule out whether it is correlation or causation. For example maybe you find an herb that seems to cure your fatigue when you brew it into a tea. You claim this herb is great for energy for you so you tell your friends to try it but they don’t have the same effect. Upon deeper realization you see that the water in your area has especially high mineral deposits such as iron in them and the herb just covered the taste of the water so you were drinking more of it, essentially helping you overcome mild anemia. Turns out the effects of that herb were correlated to increased energy but not caused by the herb.

    Also remember the difference between screwing around and science is writing it out. Always write down you *exact* proceedure so you can effectively peer review it.

    On another note, there is nothing “less witchy” about using science over “magical” means. Like if you are an herbalist and you know you could take willow bark for your headache or whatever but you reach for an asprin anyway that is not only super valid but probably the more “witchy” thing to do. Why would you deprive yourself of convenient means of treatment if you don’t need to? medications are often specifically dosed and consistent and I guarantee your ancestors would smack yo ass if they found out you had easy access (in most cases) to well controlled medicine and chose not to use it.

    But yeah, a lot of what people do as witchcraft now has been discussed scientifically and usually given a scientific name. I like to call this the “same shit different name” syndrome. If you want to do ritual with your meds, it’s might honestly make your meds work better considering how spirituality or even just the belief that things are going to work seems to make them work better.

    That being said, always remember to be safe when using witchcraft in place of medicines. There is a reason we regulate medicines for mass consumption. Always check if your sources are peer reviewed when researching witchcraft as science and check for biases in the paper. If the organization publishing the paper would benefit from you agreeing with their outcomes, such as monetarily, then question it extra hard. Sometimes it’s not obvious that a paper claiming naturopathic medicine works would benefit but then you see they are sponsored by Herbalife or something down the line. Be critical. Be aware. Most importantly, learn as much as you can!

  • violette_witch

    September 15, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    Science witch here. Pretty much every lab has a small totem/good luck charm of some sort hidden somewhere because it “stops the machine from breaking”. We also have a special dance we do that encourages the machine to work properly. Hey, it works!

  • apewithwifi

    September 15, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    Healthcare witch here! Huzzah!

  • sorciereaufoyer

    September 15, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    Skeptic witch here. When non-witch skeptic people ask me about my rituals “Do you really believe that it works ?”, I answer : “I know that it works, just not how you think it does”.

    Humanity lived in tribes for thousands of years before civilization, colonisations and modern world. Our brain evolved with a life that was all about the seasons changing, the nature surrounding, food, gathering around the fire, local beliefs and rituals, the medicine man or woman, etc. If we look at humanity, for the most part of it we were practicing some kind of animism.

    I think it’s only logical to think that our human subconscious has a natural connexion with these practices, because they are based on symbols that are familiar with our human history. I believe that 20 years from now there will be healthcare-reimbursed witchcraft-like therapy, just like now you have medical protocols for mindfulness meditation (which was frowned upon medical science a few decades ago). We may find in witchcraft and shamanism the cure for some mental illnesses !

  • LiminalEchoes

    September 15, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    I love this.

    If you are interested in the science of Witchcraft, you might want to check out r/SASSWitches.

    Also, I wrote a post there about some scientific explanations of deities and spirts:

    A (working) Theory of spirits, deities, and other "mythical" entities from SASSWitches

    Edit: whoops! Just now realizing I had chatted with OP about this before! I knew that smart cookie seemed familiar!

    Still, just gonna leave this link here for other folks to see (whistles innocently)

  • Staylucidtrippin

    September 15, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    When you stop separating the spirit from the science you get alchemy

  • lapetitevoyageuse

    September 15, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    as a science-y premed who is (hopefully) heading off to medical school next year, i love this! 🙂

  • chronicllycraftinmum

    September 15, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    This is how I explain to my 8 year old that I’m a witch, but hollywood is exaggerated for entertainments sake.

  • Rahx3

    September 15, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    Other things I know that help but don’t have resources immediately handy: aromatherapy has direct impact on improving health, mindfulness (related to meditation) is also helpful in reducing stress and improving quality of functioning, and some research suggests immersion in nature consistently improves the immune system. I am not as versed in Eastern medicine but I know they tend to believe a strong connection between emotions and specific body parts (which I think there’s some Western research support?)

  • diceanddreams

    September 15, 2021 at 12:34 pm


    As somebody who was in biochem sometimes the a-scientific approach a lot of practitioners take gets incredibly on my nerves. (And that doesn’t even begin to touch on shit like “if it ends in -ite water ain’t right uwu”, which is my personal pet peeve rage button)

  • Seabastial

    September 15, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    Very well said! I love it!

  • ozgirl23

    September 15, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    Yes! I love this! So well said-science and nature are so intertwined!

  • 7R15M3G157U5

    September 15, 2021 at 12:34 pm

    I love your rant and love you for posting it. Much of this is known to me. Some of it is new. We have entered the age of wider inclusions, the dominant of witchcraft. I think that all of the stuff us edge walking weirdos think and talk about will be the new normal common knowledge before many of us reach the end of our lives. I think more people need magic in their lives, and many need some magic mushrooms in their lives. The penicillin mold is only the tip of the iceberg with fungal medicine and what some of our allies can do with/for us

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